Which uw setup to buy Canon G11 or S90

A place just for compact camera users. Ask questions or show off your wet lens setup.

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Postby vortexted » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:19 am

Thanks for all those great links to James posts. Wow, James, you've really taken extensive to time to write up some great information that is very helpful! Thanks for taking the time to research and write all that great information up.

I've decided to go with the Canon S90 for uw photography and for when I need a pocket camera on those nights out, but I'll keep the Canon G11 for my topside camera. At least until Canon adds HD Video to either of these cameras then I"ll change them out.

So here is the setup S90 setup I'm looking at from Reef Photo. This is from the quote Ryan sent me. I'm a little unsure weather I should get this macro lens or the flip diopter lenses.

Item Model List Price Qty Sub
FIX G10/G11/NP6000/S90 Monitor Hood
FIX S90 Housing fix.s90 799.00
FIX S90 Strobe Mask fix.s90.strobemask 31.95
ULCS TR-D Digital Tray ulc.tr.d 39.95
ULCS TR-DHB Padded Handle w/ Ball for Digital Tray ulc.tr.dhb 49.95

ULCS DB-05 5" Double Ball Arm ulc.db.05 47.95 2 95.90
ULCS AC-CSF Clamp, New Style w/ 15° Lateral Movement ulc.ac.csf 29.95 3 89.85
ULCS AD-IN Adapter for Inon Z-series, D-series and S-Series Stro ulc.ad.in 24.95 24.95
Inon Z-240 Strobe Type 4 ino.456212143215 749.00
Inon Optical D Cable (43 cm/L Type) ino.456212143441 79.00
FIX UWL-04 Fisheye Wet Mount Conversion Lens - ST Mount fix.uwl.04.st 399.00
Seatool M67 To ST Lens Adapter st.sc.l.m67 59.00 2 118.00
Inon UCL-165M67 Close-up Lens ino.456212143162 169.00
Inon 67mm Single Lens Holder ino.456212143171 51.95
Seatool M67 Housing To ST Lens Adapter st.cb.m67 59.00
FIX S90 M67 Lens Adapter fix.s90.m67.adapter 190.00
Sub-Total 2,974.50

Anything missing? Or anything I should change out for a better version?
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Postby James » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:08 am

It looks like you are going with the FIX/Fisheye UWL-04 wide angle lens. I would get the Reef/Backscatter listed single piece 52mm port adapter, 39.95 at Reef.

I would get the D2000 instead of the Z240. The Z is more powerful but not enough to make a huge difference. Five feet is going to be your maximum shooting distance anyways regardless of strobe type. Save yourself some money and get a D2000.

I would get a thread on 67mm FIX mount instead of the FIX ST mount, both are right at 200 dollars.

I would not get the flip lenses but I have no strong opinion, I prefer the Inon UCL165AD or the threaded 67mm version UCL165-67mm for my macro.


BTW, you can use the UWL-04 with the included 67mm to 52mm step ring with the FIX 67mm three piece mount but it will vignette until zoomed to about 35mm or at least one bump of the zoom lever, with the single piece FIX 52mm port adapter it should work at full 28mm on the S90 without vignetting.

James
Swim down, swim around, swim back up

Canon S90 with FIX90 housing, 2X Inon D2000 strobes, DIY tray, Inon UFL165AD, Inon UCL165AD, Inon UWL100-67 with dome kit, ordered Fisheye UWL-04
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Postby seekncritters » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:40 am

vortexted: Very exciting!

Looks like you're missing a focus light. You'll want one especially if you like to do macro or supermacro. See:

http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/focus-lights-fantasea-nocturnal

I personally use the Fantasea 44 LED one, and it works great and is inexpensive which is even better. You can get it from B&H or Adorama I believe. I got an extra arm for the UCLS tray and mounted the light on that arm using one of the "long" clamps http://www.reefphoto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1881
But I don't think you need to get an extra arm just yet. I believe the FIX housing has a "hot shoe" mount you could use for a focus light. AWESOME! (Wish my Canon OEM housing had that!). You would just need mounting hardware and a clamp.

Also, you'll probably want some bouyancy floats since your rig will be heavy in the water. Try "StiX". Can someone suggest which set would be best and where to buy?

-Dana
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Postby vortexted » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:13 pm

So I called Ryan to place the order and he talked me out of going the ST mount way because he said this will cause vignetting and it only takes 4 or 5 seconds to unscrew the thread mounts and people the on the forums were exagerating the thread mounts taking a long time to unscrew. So I took his word for it and went with this set up.
FIX G10/G11/NP6000/S90 Monitor Hood fix.monitor 28.00
FIX S90 Housing fix.s90 799.00
FIX S90 Strobe Mask fix.s90.strobemask 31.95
FIX S90 Threaded Adadpter Ring M52 fix.m52.ring 35.00
ULCS TR-D Digital Tray ulc.tr.d 39.95
ULCS TR-DHB Padded Handle w/ Ball for Digital Tray ulc.tr.dhb 49.95
ULCS DB-05 5" Double Ball Arm ulc.db.05 47.95 2 95.90
ULCS AC-CSF Clamp, New Style w/ 15° Lateral Movement ulc.ac.csf 29.95 3 89.85
ULCS AD-IN Adapter for Inon Z-series, D-series and S-Series Stro ulc.ad.in 24.95
Inon Z-240 Strobe Type 4 ino.456212143215 749.00
Inon Optical D Cable (43 cm/L Type) ino.456212143441 79.00
FIX UWL-04 Fisheye Wet Mount Conversion Lens - 67mm/52mm fix.uwl.04.m52/67 399.00
52mm Housing -> 67mm Lens Step Up Ring rpv.misc 10.00
Inon 67mm Single Lens Holder ino.456212143171 51.95 changed to double lens holder
Inon UCL-165M67 Close-up Lens ino.456212143162 169.00
Sub-Total 2,652.50

Both the Z240 strobe and UCL close up lens are on back order for a month :( Maybe I'll just call backscatter and order them.
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Postby CompuDude » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:48 am

Since the Z240 is backordered, perhaps the universe is suggesting you buy the D2000 instead? ;)

Threaded lenses CAN be swapped underwater, but you're not going to enjoy it. Best case is warm water-only, no glove diving, but with any sort of gloves on, I loathe changing threaded lenses underwater.

If you're the type who doesn't mind leaving one lens on for the whole dive, and choosing one style of shooting for the duration of a dive, no worries. (Many actually prefer to concentrate on one type, even if they have the option to switch.) I'm a photo opportunist, though, and appreciate switching from wide angle (UFL-165AD) to super macro (2x UCL-165AD) in seconds, no fumbling and no fear for cross-threading. I like it so much I choose the UFL-165AD over the UWL-04, even though it costs me ideal FOV with the wide angle.

Incidentally, Dana is absolutely correct about needing a focus light. The difference is huge. And while I hate to admit it, she's also right about the need (well, perhaps it's borderline to say "need", but certainly strong want) for some sort of flotation. Don't take our word for it, though... dive the right a couple times and see for yourself. You won't need a massive amount of flotation, just a bit to help offset the weight a touch.
-CompuDude
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Canon S90, Fisheye FIX housing, Inon D2000 strobe, Fisheye FIX Mini LED Focus Light, Inon UCL-165AD Macro Lenses x2, ULCS arms, Ikelite Handle/Tray with custom adapter plate
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Postby Jonte » Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:52 pm

Hi guys!
First of all -thanks all seekers of information for posting questions I wanted to ask, and all mentors for writing the answers to them!

I would like to continue this thread by seeking similar advise as Vortexted did. Hope you have the energy to guide even me!
Where I live in Sweden there is nowhere to buy stuff like this so all I know I've red on the net leaving me with a lot of questions... Below is my idea of what to get with a few big questions. Any comments and recommendations are much appriciated!

I have a s90, and I'm set to get the FIX housing for the small size and full camera control.

Next - let there be light: I think I'll get the Inon S2000 and an ultralight plate, handle and 5" arm, completed with two clamps and an Optical D-cable.
For the hotshoe I'm thinking of the Fisheye FIX min LED Focusing light.
This seems as a good and travel-friendly setup, that I hope will work well with the s90.

Then - wide angel: I'm sure I want to be able to swap wet lenses quick and easy while diving even in arctic conditions (thick dry gloves). So bayonette it must be. Here my troubles begin to stack; there are 3 types of bayonett, right? AD, 28AD and ST? As I understand it the s90 will due to its 28mm work best with 28AD? Or will AD or ST be as good?

The lenses available to choose from seems to be only UWL-04, UFL-165 and UWL-100 (with an additional dome port).
The FIX housing itself will need an adaptor no mather which lens I get, right?
UWL-04 is not a wet lens at all if I understand CompuDude and the http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/underwater-wet-lenses text, is it?
That would leave me the choice of UFL-165 or UWL-100 (and the possibility to get an additional dome port for wider angle, resulting in 150 degrees).

So it is possible to get an adaptor or combinations of adaptors for either of these choises for bayonett mounts without loosing any FOV or causing other problems? The text on http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/forum ... f=22&t=264 unfortunately got a bit to complicated for me, and the UPDATE-text in the beginning of http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/canon-s90-fix-housing left me a bit adaptor-confused to what is needed and best...

If both these lenses will work fine, I guess it will just come down to the total cost, or is there something else to consider as well?
I have been using the same old plain point and shoot camera for 8 years now and really want a wide angle lens with my new kit, but don't know how wide I need. What are you recommendations? The more the better? Is 100 degrees way to little to make me a happy diver if I don't get the additional dome port to the UWL-100?

Next step will be a macro lens, but I've only seen one choise there: UCL-165. As long as I can find adaptors that work with the wide angel adaptors I think I'm set with that one, but is it correct there is no AD28 version for this?

A lens caddy to top it all of, and I hope I'm done!
All in all - I hope I'm on to a small, nice kit I can use both at home and take travelling!

Any comment or other recommendations?

Best regards
Jonte, Sweden
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Postby CompuDude » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:57 am

Hi Jonte, sorry we didn't get back to you... I've been a little distracted with topside activities lately.

Jonte wrote:Next - let there be light: I think I'll get the Inon S2000 and an ultralight plate, handle and 5" arm, completed with two clamps and an Optical D-cable.
For the hotshoe I'm thinking of the Fisheye FIX min LED Focusing light.
This seems as a good and travel-friendly setup, that I hope will work well with the s90.


This does sound like a good travel-friendly setup. The one warning I would give is regarding the Fisheye focus light on the cold shoe mount: Depending on which mount you choose, sometimes the power and ring setting buttons on top of the camera can be difficult to press, particularly with gloves on, as the mount adapter can block easy access to those buttons. I'm not sure which is the best mount to avoid this, because I ended up simply using a 3-way clamp and mounted my focus light to the handle instead.

Jonte wrote:Then - wide angel: I'm sure I want to be able to swap wet lenses quick and easy while diving even in arctic conditions (thick dry gloves). So bayonette it must be. Here my troubles begin to stack; there are 3 types of bayonett, right? AD, 28AD and ST? As I understand it the s90 will due to its 28mm work best with 28AD? Or will AD or ST be as good?

The lenses available to choose from seems to be only UWL-04, UFL-165 and UWL-100 (with an additional dome port).
The FIX housing itself will need an adaptor no mather which lens I get, right?
UWL-04 is not a wet lens at all if I understand CompuDude and the http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/underwater-wet-lenses text, is it?
That would leave me the choice of UFL-165 or UWL-100 (and the possibility to get an additional dome port for wider angle, resulting in 150 degrees).


Wide angle is the trickiest bit with the S90/Fix combo, if you want to swap lenses underwater. If you don't, the best options are either the FIX UWL04 (threaded connector) or the Inon UFL-165AD with some sort of adapter, which is what James uses.

When you do want to bayonet swap lenses underwater, however, I've been pleased with mating the UFL-165AD lens to the FIX 28AD adapter. It's not supposed to work, but I have many dives worth of photos that say otherwise, so who knows. Perhaps the UFL-165AD lens I have is a little oddly-made, or perhaps my Fix 28AD adapter is, but whatever the reason, it's worked well for me. The other option is the Inon UWL-100, with or without the dome. It's a good lens, and reasonable size and weight (without the dome... with it's really heavy, but not unmanageable), but it's not as wide angle as the other options. Is it enough for you? I don't think anyone can answer that for you, unfortunately. Adding the dome certainly raises the cost considerably.

Jonte wrote:Next step will be a macro lens, but I've only seen one choise there: UCL-165. As long as I can find adaptors that work with the wide angel adaptors I think I'm set with that one, but is it correct there is no AD28 version for this?


In my setup, the Inon UCL-165AD macro lenses work quite nicely with the Fix 28AD adapter. (Note: I usually stack two, and rarely use only one.) Again, it's not supposed to work according to Fix and some of the retailers... but the fact is, it does work very well with my setup, whether it's supposed to or not.

To my mind, the best, most convenient setup for quickly swapping from macro to wide angle, with the Fix S90 housing, is the Fix 28AD adapter for the housing (which stays on full-time), the Inon UCL-165AD macro lenses (2, ideally) and the Inon UFL-165AD fisheye lens. Add a double-sided AD lens caddy to hold things when you're not using them, and you're in business!

This setup I've recommended is NOT "the best" pure wide angle option, but it still gives (in my opinion) very good wide angle results, is reasonably priced (no extra dome needed), is nice and compact, and definitely delivers the most flexibility in terms of underwater configuration changes.
-CompuDude
Photographer
Canon S90, Fisheye FIX housing, Inon D2000 strobe, Fisheye FIX Mini LED Focus Light, Inon UCL-165AD Macro Lenses x2, ULCS arms, Ikelite Handle/Tray with custom adapter plate
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Postby James » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:24 pm

I guess I missed your question. I concur with Compudude in terms of your desire to have bayonet on and off underwater.

I have done considerable experimentation with various lenses and reported it in this thread and I stand by the results as being typical of what should be expected with these lenses or similar lenses and this camera (including the new S95 I bet). One lens I did not test is the Inon UWL100-28AD and I suspect this is an excellent and expensive choice especially if equipped with the dome conversion kit. I expect it to produce a very wide field and that it would require a minor crop to eliminate vignetting at 28mm wide.

Here is the thread:

http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/forum ... f=22&t=264

I prefer the D2000 so much over the S2000 that I cannot even recommend the S2000 unless small size is terribly important to you. The EA mode is very useful to me as is the built in modeling light I cannot see doing without.

I really wish and still hope that FIX/Fisheye will offer the threaded clips separate for the mount kits at a reasonable price, then all of the lenses are snap on and snap off and no bayonet is needed.

James
Swim down, swim around, swim back up

Canon S90 with FIX90 housing, 2X Inon D2000 strobes, DIY tray, Inon UFL165AD, Inon UCL165AD, Inon UWL100-67 with dome kit, ordered Fisheye UWL-04
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Postby Aussie_dave » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:43 pm

Jonte wrote: So it is possible to get an adaptor or combinations of adaptors for either of these choises for bayonett mounts without loosing any FOV or causing other problems?


Jonte -

I agree that the bayonet mount is the way to go. You will find it useful to add/switch lenses underwater, because you will see a nudibranch and a turtle on the same dive! What I ended up with was a combined adaptor: Dyron 67mm mount mated to 10bar 67mm-AD. It sounds cumbersome but is not, and adds no more vignetting than the FIX adaptor. Both my Inon lenses (UFL-165AD and UCL-165AD) mount and dismount easily. A drop of glue keeps the whole thing tight. Cheaper soultion, too. Here's the thread:
http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=264

Cheers, Dave
Canon S90, FIX S90 housing, Inon UFL-165AD, Inon UCL-165AD, S&S YS-01
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Postby mantababe » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:17 am

really enjoyed reading all your comments re s90. im thinking of getting the s95 and would dearly love the fix housing but cant see how i can justify spending that amount :cry: so looks like it be the cannon housing with inon wide angle, just wondered what you guys think of the cannon housing set up, i have a sea and sea strobe [not high spec but still quite good] so also wondered how that fit with the inon adapter and the housing
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