Which uw setup to buy Canon G11 or S90

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Postby vortexted » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:06 am

Hello everyone,
I'm so undecided which uw set up to buy. I already bought the Canon G11 and I love the camera topside so far. The low light photos with this camera are amazing! I also like the 5X zoom over the 3.7X of the S90. As well the G11 feels nicer in the hands. I was just about to buy the Fix G11 housing, Inon z-240 strobe, the Fix wide angle fish eye lens and macro lens, but then spoke with Ryan at Reef photo and he's talking me into going the S90 route with Fix housing. He's telling me its a better uw camera, faster, and I do like the fact I can change lenses uw with the S90 setup. This really sounds nice to be able to change lenses uw rather then be stuck with the wide angle, standard port, or macro lens for the whole dive. Really this is the only factor making me think of going the S90 route and the fact its a smaller housing.
I also read the Backscatter P&S guide http://www.backscatter.com/learn/articl ... .php?ID=80 and it says the G11 is the best P&S camera as well the best image quality they have ever seen in a P&S. Yet both of these cameras are using the same image sensor, so doesn't this mean the photo quality is going to be the same? And what about video quality, are they equal on these cameras? Its really not that big of a deal for me to buy an S90 and build my UW setup with this, and keep my G11 for topside fun, I just want to be sure I pick the right camera before investing in the expensive housings and lenses.
Anyone out there have both of these cameras or used them both enough to help me with this?
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Postby Aussie_dave » Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:42 am

The S90/FIX is indeed a great platform to build on, and you will be hearing from the faithful when the dawn rises in the West (I'm in Australia). I have a brand new S90/FIX outfit (not wet yet), love it in the air so far. My mate from UK has a G10/FIX, and now wishes he had waited for the S90. As for swapping lenses on the G's - don't give up. Dyron adaptor DY.ADFIX
http://www.dyron.fr/page_article.php?id ... language=2
allows you to mount 67mm lenses easy as.
What a great problem to have! One Canon or two? Good luck.
Canon S90, FIX S90 housing, Inon UFL-165AD, Inon UCL-165AD, S&S YS-01
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Postby James » Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:52 am

I agree with Ryan on the S90 which is obviously why I bought the S90 and FIX90 housing rather than the larger G11/10 system. I much prefer the ability to control both shutter and f stop via rotary controls, the significantly smaller housing size, the ability, a universal ability, to use virtually any wet lens to good effect and the faster lens and IMO the S90 is just a faster camera than the G series but that is just my opinion based on very limited experience with a G series camera.

As to image quality, the S90 and G11 share the same sensor, the lens is different and the S90 has significant barrel distortion on the wide end that is software corrected.

The smaller zoom ratio of the S90 is a significant ADVANTAGE for an underwater camera because it is one of the reasons the S90/FIX90 combo can utilize wet lenses to full effect.

I think the "pro" quality concept has passed it's usefulness with all of these cameras. Kind of like computer speed, it is no longer the big selling point it was years back. Any of these cameras, S90, G11 or whatever, produce quality images in the hands of a good photographer.

I bought the S90 strictly, 95%, as an underwater camera. I have and/or will have other cameras for surface use. The S90/FIX is about as close to a digital Nikonos as you can come until Nikon finally gets their head out of their_______ and gives us a digital Nikonos III.

James
Swim down, swim around, swim back up

Canon S90 with FIX90 housing, 2X Inon D2000 strobes, DIY tray, Inon UFL165AD, Inon UCL165AD, Inon UWL100-67 with dome kit, ordered Fisheye UWL-04
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Postby vortexted » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:44 am

Aussie_dave wrote: As for swapping lenses on the G's - don't give up. Dyron adaptor DY.ADFIX
http://www.dyron.fr/page_article.php?id ... language=2
allows you to mount 67mm lenses easy as.


Will this adapter make the G11 setup possible for wet lenses then? Which wide angle and macro lenses can I use with this adapter?

I've been using a Canon P&S with OEM housing for 3+ years so I have no experience with these higher end housings and swapping lenses. Thanks for your help.
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Postby James » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:59 am

The adapter allows use of 67mm threaded macro lenses on the FIX/G11 housing. To my knowledge, no wide angle or fisheye wet lenses can be used with the G11 or G10 with available housings with some possible exception with the Patima and the "short" port installed.

James
Swim down, swim around, swim back up

Canon S90 with FIX90 housing, 2X Inon D2000 strobes, DIY tray, Inon UFL165AD, Inon UCL165AD, Inon UWL100-67 with dome kit, ordered Fisheye UWL-04
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Postby vortexted » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:55 am

James wrote:The adapter allows use of 67mm threaded macro lenses on the FIX/G11 housing. To my knowledge, no wide angle or fisheye wet lenses can be used with the G11 or G10 with available housings with some possible exception with the Patima and the "short" port installed.

James


Fisheye has a super wide angle lens with 165 degree point of view for the Fix G11 housing, but its not a wet lens. This is my big dilema, I really want the ability to change lenses under water.
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Postby James » Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:18 pm

vortexted wrote:
James wrote:The adapter allows use of 67mm threaded macro lenses on the FIX/G11 housing. To my knowledge, no wide angle or fisheye wet lenses can be used with the G11 or G10 with available housings with some possible exception with the Patima and the "short" port installed.

James


Fisheye has a super wide angle lens with 165 degree point of view for the Fix G11 housing, but its not a wet lens. This is my big dilemma, I really want the ability to change lenses under water.


I am fully aware of that but it is a dry port and it works very well, however, the G11 has to be zoomed in slightly, with the dry port fisheye, thus reducing the FOV. This is from the Fisheye website. So, I will stay with what I said, no current G11 or G10 housing except possibly the Patima which has two ports, a short and a long, can utilized wet interchangeable wide angle lenses effectively. The long zoom ratio of the G11/10 preclude the use of wide angle wet lenses. The much smaller S90 lens, smaller zoom ratio and short rack distance of the S90 works well with wet lenses.

Most wet lenses are designed for a zoom ratio of 3X or less, assume a 35mm FL equivalent except for a few that assume a 28mm equivalent FL and all work best with the small-er lens diameter of small and medium size compacts. The G11 has a very large lens barrel and the objective essentially sees around the wet lens rear element until zoomed significantly thus negating any advantage to be gained.

I have been studying these lenses for three years now and I think I have a pretty good idea of what will and won't work now based on my experiments and investigations and I am confident in my statements.

James
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Postby seekncritters » Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:36 pm

You said: "This really sounds nice to be able to change lenses uw rather then be stuck with the wide angle, standard port, or macro lens for the whole dive. Really this is the only factor making me think of going the S90 route and the fact its a smaller housing."

You will greatly appreciate the ability to change lenses underwater. I think James is right and Ryan is right. Go with the S90. Can you return the G11?

-Dana
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Postby James » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:35 pm

Let me say something, I wish I were wrong but I am not. As a terrestrial camera I like the G11 concept better (but I like the Oly ELP-1 even better) but as I said, I bought my S90 strictly as an underwater camera much as was my Nikonos III system.

Also, let me add, the G11 with the dry port fisheye lens is a wonderful rig and while being able to change lenses underwater is high on cool factor you can live without that ability. If you really like the G11 then get it and by all means get the FIX including the beautiful dry port fisheye lens. This should give you a working FOV of around 150 degrees or so, in any case, very wide and still have the ability with the standard port to do your stupid fish shots and macro snail shots, lol wink, wink.

If you want to change lenses underwater, enjoy the small foot print and portability, want to have the versatility to utilize a variety of macro and wide angle lenses, then the Canon S90 and FIX are the only way to go.

James
Swim down, swim around, swim back up

Canon S90 with FIX90 housing, 2X Inon D2000 strobes, DIY tray, Inon UFL165AD, Inon UCL165AD, Inon UWL100-67 with dome kit, ordered Fisheye UWL-04
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Postby seekncritters » Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:38 pm

vortexted wrote:
James wrote:The adapter allows use of 67mm threaded macro lenses on the FIX/G11 housing. To my knowledge, no wide angle or fisheye wet lenses can be used with the G11 or G10 with available housings with some possible exception with the Patima and the "short" port installed.

James


Fisheye has a super wide angle lens with 165 degree point of view for the Fix G11 housing, but its not a wet lens. This is my big dilema, I really want the ability to change lenses under water.


vortexted - The choice seems quite obvious and simple, since you really want the ability to changes lenses under water: S90. Now to decide which housing and which lens(es).

See the reviews of the S90 housings here:
http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/canon-s90-underwater-housings

Wet Lenses:
http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/underwater-wet-lenses

Check out James' ongoing wet lens tests here:
http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=264

-Dana
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